I used to think my job was to judge founders. Now I ask people to tell me what broke and what they did next. I call it a podcast. It is also penance.

This episode is with Dr. Rod Berger. He is a writer, consultant, and the author of The Narrative Edge. We talked about story. Not the fake kind. The real kind.

Rod’s view is simple. Story is how people survive each other.

You get pulled over for speeding. Before the cop gets to the car, you’re already building your story. You’re trying to make yourself forgivable.

First date. Job interview. Getting caught stealing cookies when you’re six. Same act. What can I say so I don’t get dropped. We learn this young. We never stop.

Rod says leaders pretend story is optional. It isn’t. It is the only thing that makes you human to other people.

Most CEOs are bad at this. I’ve interviewed them. You ask, When did you screw up. They answer, We’re very excited about our platform. Dead air. No blood. No point.

Rod says that comes from fear. Since childhood, most of us are still asking, Am I going to get picked. No one wants to tell a story that might make them sound weak. They’re afraid they’ll lose status if they’re honest. So they default to talking points. They seal themselves shut. You can’t connect with that. You can barely stay awake.

He told me about someone he interviewed a few times across a few years. Total lockdown. Polished. No air. He finally told her PR rep, Don’t call again. There was nothing human left to work with.

So how do you fix that.

This is what he does in his consulting work. He sits people down off the record. He interviews them. Long form. He makes them walk through their own past, moment by moment. What happened. Then what. Then what. He watches what they avoid and what they rush to tell. Then he shows them the transcript. He shows them how they actually sound in public. He shows them the gaps.

A lot of them hate hearing it. Good. Hate is honest. Hate means they finally heard themselves. After that, most of them want more. He said it can feel like a drug. Once someone feels what it’s like to be listened to for real, they want to keep going. They start to open up. They start to risk.

That is the start of being a storyteller. Not branding. Not performance. Just saying what really happened, and how it felt, without flinching.

He said something else worth keeping. Story lives in the pause. Not in the slide deck. Not in the press release. In the quiet moment between floors on the elevator, where you admit to yourself what actually happened.

He also said this. Life is a series of at bats. You might miss three curve balls. Fine. Next time you see the pitch a little earlier. That’s how you get better at talking like a person. You stand in. You swing. You listen.

Rod’s book is The Narrative Edge. If you lead people, or you want to, you probably need what he’s teaching.